Pricing for Square Loyalty for existing sellers

[zder]

This post was created from an existing thread: Important Update for Loyalty: Add multiple rewards, customize your Loyalty terminology and more

Fees for the Square Loyalty Program have gone up dramatically (https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/6382). So, the more loyalty customers you have, the harder it will be to administer them, and the more you will have to pay. We were already thinking of eliminating the Square Loyalty Program because of the increased burden of managing it.

[#2]

First of all, I’m sorry for the confusion around this topic. I’d like to start by clarifying that pricing is not currently changing for existing Loyalty customers.

As you’ve seen, we’re testing a new Loyalty pricing model for new customers that sign up for the program. If you already have a Loyalty program, there is no change to your pricing happening in 2018.

I’d also like to give a little more insight into what’s happening behind the scenes. The Loyalty team is testing a participation-based pricing model that is based on the number of loyalty visits per month. The reason behind this shift: based on program usage data and seller interviews, they have learned that pricing by location does not best align the price of a loyalty program to the value sellers receive. They are exploring different ways to find a pricing model that is the right fit for the variety of businesses we serve, as we have businesses of all sizes and complexities using Loyalty. With this new participation-based pricing model, the hope is that many businesses will benefit by only paying for a loyalty program when it’s working for you and your customers. The monthly price would adjust based on your monthly loyalty program participation across all your locations.

Since the team is in the testing phase with this pricing model, they are collecting feedback and will make a longer-term decision about pricing after gathering additional data and hearing directly from more Square sellers. Thank you for sharing your thoughts here in the community - our Loyalty team is reading each of these responses. Additionally, Darsh on the Loyalty team will be conducting phone calls to gather more feedback with anyone here willing to talk with her. If you’re interested, please schedule a feedback appointment.

I can imagine that if you are a current Loyalty subscriber, seeing these new pricing tiers is somewhat shocking and surprising, based on the increase in price that some of you would see under the new model. The team remains very mindful that this new pricing model could have large increases in pricing for some of you and they are continuing to collect feedback to understand the impact before any changes are made. In the event that we do decide to change pricing, you will have months of advance notice and we will notify you directly. We understand that your business needs time to adjust to any substantial change like this.

Again, I’m sorry for any confusion and thank you all for working with us to find the right fit for pricing.

[LocavoreStore]

@Kpay. I'm sure no rocks are being left unturned, but has anybody floated the idea of tiered Loyalty features? Instead of tiered pricing (for the same program), what if there were basic-pro levels of the Loyalty program that we could opt into regardless of how frequently it is used? Some people might be perfectly satisfied with a "barebones" version of the Loyalty Program, while others would pay a premium to access a more polished or feature-rich version. 

[Kpay]

Thank you all for being open to discussing this further - it's really helpful for me and the Loyalty team to understand "the why" behind this not working for you. Thanks also to those of you who've scheduled a time to talk to Darsh. @LocavoreStore you're right - the team is evaluating all options out there. I'll make sure Darsh and the team see your idea here about tiered loyalty features, too. I'd be interested to hear what you would consider the "bare-bones" version - i.e. which features you all consider vital vs. not. 👍

I also want to acknowledge what a few of you have said (@brick @zder @ReneeMassage I'm looking at you) about this feeling like a departure from the Square philosophy of transparency and trustworthiness. I know this is something we have to earn from you and it's fair for you to call us out at times like this when it feels like we're not doing our best to serve you. I appreciate you choosing us to begin with, especially when there are so many options out there.

As Square has grown, the businesses we serve have evolved as well, meaning we're tasked with finding the best fit for businesses that vary greatly in ticket size, complexity, number of customers, number of locations/employees, and many other factors. This is a good problem to have and one that we're not shying away from. It does put us in the position of not being able to make everyone happy all the time - but we're going to get as close as possible. That's why we're even more dependent than ever on your feedback and forums like this where you all can share ideas and talk directly with us. The other thing to keep in mind is that there are many seller interviews happening behind the scenes as well where we may be getting feedback that's not as represented in this forum.

In short, I can't promise that all the decisions Square will make moving forward will be aligned with what you want, but I can commit to being here to listen to your feedback and get it to the right people. Again, thank you for taking the time to write up your thoughts, to post, and to voice your opinion. I can't thank you enough for being here to continue partnering with us.

As I get more updates about pricing and Loyalty feature updates, I'll continue to post on this thread. Keep your ideas coming as well (I'll "like" your comment to show I've seen it!) and please schedule a call with Darsh if you're interested in going more in-depth. 

[brick]

@Kpay

Thank you! Sounds like a plan - seems like we're all eager to have greater input into the process, so that is certainly appreciated.

All of us, Square included, are here to be profitable - it's the essence of capitalism and I think we all get that. B2B is a little different in that there's also a strong symbiotic relationship between two parties. To your point re: Square's growth - and as @LocavoreStore mentioned - perhaps there is more of a suite of options that we can choose from. It is indeed difficult to be all things to all businesses, so the concept of user-defined settings and tiered service options becomes increasingly necessary. And there always needs to be value to use - and acknowledgment that these are generally small businesses in a tremendously competitive environment. We simply can't absorb huge monthly costs for a relatively basic service.

So... thank you for listening and opening up the door for greater community feedback - I'll save the rest of my thoughts for that venue.  I'm certain the trust in the partnership with Square will be strong from the community as these issues are addressed in a fair and consistent manner. It really is consistency that we need more than anything. Rapid and frequent change - whether it be features, functions, or pricing - is not a friend to the SMB.  

Thanks for listening @Kpay!

[zder]

@Kpay,

Thank you. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and clarity on this matter.

[LocavoreStore]

Oh, I don't really know what that would look like I guess. It's hard to imagine what a simplified version of the Loyalty Program would look like. I can understand that most customers are happy with getting a summary of all the Loyalty transactions (for $25/mo... I am)... You can see an overview of Attributed Sales, total use numbers, etc, but only within a browser. Truth is I would be incredibly dissatisfied with the lack of utility that is currently offered having paid $150+/month. I feel like all of this information is currently available, but not in any tangible way. For anything more than $25/mo. I would expect to have access to the raw data that is generated by the Loyalty Program so that I can export and query it however I want. 

[ArtisanCandies]

It sounds like Square is trying to be all things to all types of companies, rather than focusing on the types of businesses that got you to where you are today, and I imagine are the bread and butter of your business. Us little guys. Quote below:

"As Square has grown, the businesses we serve have evolved as well, meaning we're tasked with finding the best fit for businesses that vary greatly in ticket size, complexity, number of customers, number of locations/employees, and many other factors. This is a good problem to have and one that we're not shying away from. It does put us in the position of not being able to make everyone happy all the time - but we're going to get as close as possible."

If us little companies are not viable enough for Square to continue doing business with us, at least tell us instead of stringing us along. Maybe having all these new options are the problem, where you are trying to add on every feature possible and losing sight of the core of your business, which I thought was making credit card transactions easy, fair and affordable to all.

[RevocupSouth]

So just to clarify, based on your comment, we should expect this new tier plan in 2019?  Correct?

[Kpay]

@RevocupSouth, sorry I missed this comment when you posted it a few days ago. Thanks for the question - there are no confirmations on pricing changes for 2019. The Loyalty team is testing and collecting feedback and plan to use that feedback to adapt the pricing plan. They are still in the research phase so I don't yet know if there will be a pricing change or potentially a change in how pricing is calculated. I know this isn't a super cut and dry answer, but these are the details I have. 

[RevocupSouth]

As you can imagine this is a huge issue for many going forward.  I plan on opening 3 new stores within the year.  Based on what I am seeing, this will no longer be a viable option for us since it will just be to cost prohibitive.  Updates are appreciated, but lack of direction/answers makes it hard for me to make decisions going forward into 2019. Especially as we grow.

[Kpay]

Understood, thank you for the background @RevocupSouth. I know lots of people are starting to think about 2019 plans, so it's helpful for us to know where you're coming from with this. 

[ArtisanCandies]

Something that is slightly bothering me about this whole discussion, and previously when we were talking about the nature of the Loyalty program and how it would work, is that this whole issue is taking a lot of my time away from my business. I find myself having to shuffle things around in order to participate and write out my thoughts in an articulate way to keep up with what is being said and shared.

This is a long way of saying that Square should be paying for its research and development in the same way that other companies do, by organizing and paying for market research in an official capacity. Square is essentially getting our time and input for free in these forums, and 1) I don't mind if it's small stuff once in a while, and 2) at this point I feel like Square is using all of us customers (I've been on panels where my time has been paid for, up to $250 depending on the topic).

At this point, if you, Square, want to have access to my opinions and experience with your product, you will need to contact me directly and pay for my time. May I recommend Nichols Research for your market research needs, especially as it relates to your Loyalty Program. https://nicholsresearch.com/

[tyler]

Hi all,

After using this new tier reward for a week, I completely agree how convoluted and confusing this new system is, and not very beneficial for everyone. I know there are some that will have use for the tier systems, however for some like myself, I don't need that. One of the strength of Square POS and loyalty is its simplicity and ease of use. That's why we set our reward as $1 spent = 1 star, and 100 stars = 1 free item. That's all, plain and simple, and easy to implement when you are in a lunch rush, and lines are out the door. I completely agree with @ArtisanCandies. My customers don't really have time to figure out all these details about how many points do they have and what tier will give what. I really hope Square is paying attention to all these complaints from us sellers, and figure something out. The new pricing structure is what really killing me here. I don't use any of the tier reward, and yet based on the new pricing, I will be at the very top of the pyramid, at almost $200. That's 8 times what I'm currrently paying. Crazy!!! 

[katieand]

Hi @tyler & @sasharecycles - I've moved your comments over here for a more relevant discussion on Loyalty pricing for existing subscribers. Take a look at the comments above to learn more about what's going on with Loyalty and some of the details. 

[sasharecycles]

What @tyler?? I was not aware that pricing was going up as a result of this? That changes everything!

[HeatherS]

@sasharecycles

The pricing for existing customers isn't changing (for now, at least.) People keep forgetting to mention that when they mention the new pricing structure.

See Pricing for Square Loyalty for existing Sellers

[sasharecycles]

@HeatherS well what is not clear, is how it's determined how many we have, how do I figure that out? Is it based on enrollees or is it based on redemptions? What? You guys couldn't make loyalty any more confusing after this last round of "updates."

[ArtisanCandies]

@HeatherS I'm pretty sure we all know that the price doesn't change for existing customers. What I'm getting from this discussion, and probably a lot of others are as well, is that Square has inferred that they are not ruling out raising the price for existing customers next year and will probably make our pricing the same as the new customers in 2019. I'm concerned for next year as well as this year because I'm thinking long term.

[HeatherS]

@ArtisanCandies you're right. I am sure the prices will go up & it isn't worth the minimum of $175/month we would be paying. All we can do is let Square know what we think.

My reply was to @sasharecycles & I wasn't sure if they had gotten the info from all the posts in the thread.

[sasharecycles]

@HeatherS thanks, i did read thru the enitre thread and I still don't understand how I'm supposed to know how many folks use loyalty, or more importantly, what you determine as the requisite for the tiered pricing. i'm really not an idiot, but I find this hunting down of basic info a waste of my time. Clearly, everyone else understands how to determine where they fall in the new tiered system, but I guess, I just don't know where to look. 

[sasharecycles]

I guess I figured it out from the desktop dashboard... I just don't go there often. Glad to know I'm not a total idiot.

[Kpay]

@sasharecycles, sorry about that, I definitely could have let people know to check their dashboard for more info on how many visitors you have using Loyalty. Here's a screenshot of where in your Dashboard you can find your total visits:

To answer your question from later on, yes, under the new tiered pricing, your pricing could change from month to month if you change tiers. The unpredictability of this pricing is one of the main themes we also heard in focus groups, so the team is aware this is not ideal. 

@HeatherS, thanks for helping clarify for those new to the post that pricing is not changing for existing customers this year. I also hear what you're saying, @ArtisanCandies and want to reiterate that we'll be giving advance notice if we're changing the pricing. 

Again, thank you all for continuing the conversation and giving us your thoughts. This is helpful for us. On the first page there's also a link to schedule an appointment with Darsh; please take advantage of that if you'd like to go more in-depth with the team.